HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/05/1983. This is a public hearing on Item 1. This is a presentation by
Chief Gross, Chief of Police.
Chief Gross: Mr. King, I would like to open by thanking you and
the Commission for providing the department an
opportunity for appearing here this evening. I
feel it is necessary to open by referencing two
newspaper articles. The one in the Register I wasn't
too concerned about that one because the reputation
of that paper would probably lead people to question
the material to begin with. I am somewhat concerned
though when, apparently, the Daily Pilot exercised
the reporting technique of copying the story from
another paper and not questioning the material that
was in that and I would like to assure you that if
you have read that article in the Pilot that I am
not here to make any recommendation on any moratorium,
• and, in fact, I am not here to make any recommendation
on any of those issues that may be before you this
evening. Now you have already received our recommendation
on that, nothing has changed in terms of our examination
of that recommendation. The reason that I am here is
that Mr. Hewicker and I were in a.discussion about
some issues involving one of those permits that became
apparent to me and, I think, to both of us that one of
the problems that a Commission such as yours faces is
that you deal with individual permits which is
entirely appropriate. As an example, I assume that
you do the same thing we do, when a permit comes to..
us the staff for recommendation, what we do is to
examine it as an individual thing. We don't play it
against some kind of set criterion, have an automatic
response to it. We conduct an independent
investigation. What I thought might be helpful to the
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Commission since that is true, was to take a few
minutes this evening and number 1, make.some
comments and following that make myself available
for any clarification that you might desire to
question. Back in 1980, we did some future think
in the department about some issues that were brought
to our attention. At that time, we prepared a report
and forwarded that report to the City Council and
that report is dated July 24, 1980, and the title of
that report is "Trends In The Beach Areas ". What
that report deals with and I have copies here this
evening - and I have copieshere this evening - what
that report deals with.is identification and very
specific and objective material and an analysis and
projection on our part as to what that portended for
the future, and then at the closing of that report
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some statements about some positive actions that could
be taken by the department. Basically what that report
deals with is a definition of two kinds of activities
that occur in the beach areas of this City and one of
them is referred to broadly as beach activity and the
other is cruising. These are both areas that most.
often require some kind of response on the part of
the police department, and these responses are usually
engendered by a member of the community or some other
person seeking our assistance in relation to a
particular problem. The beach activity is that kind
of historic activity that we associate with Newport
Beach. We are an area that has some unique and very
excellent water oriented recreational opportunities.
And historically people have always had the physical
capacity to come to Newport Beach and enjoy those
recreational activities, but the.people that came here,
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came here to specifically to engage in those kind.of.
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water oriented recreational activities. That has
not changed. That is one of those social aspects
that we considered and one of the social aspects
that we identified as being unchanged. The other
one is sort of a general concept in our society
today that is significantly changing and that relates
specifically to alcohol. While I am not here pro
con or anything else in terms of alcohol as a general
social thing or any specific thing what I am stating
is that I think realistically we have to think in toto
and we have to take a gestalt view in the terms of
what is going to happen in our community. What we
did was to relate our perceptions to some historical
things that have occurred in other areas and you will
hear me later refer to Hollywood Boulevard. The other
major change that is present in our society today is
not necessary the use of alcohol per se but the young
peoples perception of society's response to the use
of alcohol, and that is one of those things that I
think is probably evident to you as well as to us
in terms in the kinds of activities in which we must
engage. But basically, with those few specific changes
we have some things that occur within the beach areas
of our community. I might comment that the position
of this community has consistently over the years been
in a strong enforcement position and they have required
of this department a strong enforcement position in
relation to alcohol related activities. Consequently,
in this community you find certain alcohol related
activities, if I can use a broad term, receiving more
public response than they would in some other areas'
where in fact they may be ignored. So if you put these
• two things together and you add to it one other factor,
I commented on the fact that people could always
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physically come to the City of Newport Beach and
engage in certain activities, and again I hope
someone does not assume that I am trying to be
judgemental because I'm not, but there was a
significant change that came with Proposition 20.
What Proposition 20 did was to create a whole new
kind of mobility and that is psychological mobility,
and the observational notes that we took at the time
very clearly showed that we had had a very significant
change in the daytime, or what we call the day visitors,
to the City of Newport Beach. What changed was that
with that psychological mobility people were not
coming here for the unique water oriented recreational
activities, what they were doing was bringing a
recreational culture to a more comfort location
and what happens is that at thg time this report
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was made the problem was oriented around a specific .
ethnic group. You will note in the report that I
have deleted some material and the material I deleted
related to that. That's not because it's not factual
it's because that subsequent to 1980 eliminating it
or saying that that was the major problem has changed
and we have several different kinds of ethnic culture
recreational activity that's now come to the beach.
The unfortunate timing about that, and there could
be some positive aspects to in terms of inter- mixing
of cultures and the rest of it. The unfortunate part
of it is that if that recreational culture is an
alcohol oriented "sit in a closed group" kind of thing
that comes to the beach as its cause and is continuing to
cause and is-increasingly causing conflicts on the beach
itself. Two things have happened out of that. You
have had a kind of a physical confrontation, not always
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blows but in terms of people, these are the people in
terms of anger. The other thing is that there are
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a significant number of people who used to come here
for the water oriented recreational activities that
now go to other locations, because the beach and beach
areas are being usurped by these other groups and they
do not want to have to put up with that. So, with this
in mind, and the study that we conducted while a
disoriented, and the one you read here, is specifically
oriented to the beach areas, that is not untrue of some
other aspects within the community. We are not singling
out the beach areas as the paper would have you believe
as being the only problem spot in the City of Newport
Beach. But that's the one specifically that Jim and I
were talking about the other day. So what I wanted to
make avaialble to you today was myself to respond to
questions and that's just.sort of an opening statement
. that there is no position on the Police Department in
relation to any general feeling about licensing premises
for alcoholic beverages. I think realistically though
that the paper does quote us correctly when we say, as
I think you would realize yourself, that if we were to
reduce or eliminate the sale or dispensing of alcoholic
beverages, the 900 and some odd incidents that we have
had occur here recently would not have occurred because
they are directly alcohol oriented. Now when one talks
about taking a broad view in relation to the utilization
of a city, the Planning Commission we sense is that
element of.the community and the city government that
is responsible for making the decision in individual
cases, but I sense also in making that decision that it
is my responsibility as a staff person to provide you
some broad background and perhaps crank into you your
long -range thinking, which I think has been expressed
by everybody as being the primary goal, is something
that might help you in making those kinds of long -range
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decisions when you are looking at an individual license
request or premise request. With that statement, I
make myself available for any questions or responses
of the Commission, Mr. King.
Mr. King:
Thank.you Chief Gross.
Commissioners, do you have any questions?
Mr. Goff.
Mr. Goff:
I do. Chief, you made reference to Proposition 20 in
the psychological mobility. Would you go into a little
bit of detail. I don't know what Proposition 20 is.
Chief Gross:
That's the coastal commission, set up the coastal
commission. What it did, was to say to a significant
portion of our society that never thought of coming to
the beach. You know, that going to the beach was not
part of their recreational culture. What it did was
to say to them, This is your beach and its a more
comfortable location and so people are just transferring
to theirs, as you or I might, you know with our
recreational culture to a more comfortable location.
There is nothing negative in the coming here.. I don't
mean to indicate that at all. What I'm saying is,
unintended out of that kind of psychological mobility
we've changed the character of the day visitor to
Newport Beach. And I see that continuing. I do not
see that abating.. I see it expanding. As I said,
there was one group particularly about which we were
concerned at the time but that has now expanded to
several different groups.
.Mr. King:
Chief, is a large portion of the problem essentially
transported to the beach area by the individuals or
is it purchased here? That is kind of what our
problem is, is trying to determine how much.of it
is generated within the boundaries and how much of.
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it actually is brought to the City.
Chief Gross:
All of the incidents - I mentioned over 900 incidents
and 240 some odd of those and the paper did correct
that figure. They did quote that figure.correctly.
What they failed to do is to say that there were 900
some odd alcohol related incidents. Of those 241 were
directly related to on -site premises.
Comm. Balalis:
Chief, I had a couple of questions that I wanted to
understand a couple of things. As I recall, it used
to be unlawful to consume alcoholic beverages on the
beach. Isn't that the law as. .
Chief Gross:
The law at the present time still prohibits that
because it must be taken from an open container and
it is a Municipal Ordinance.prohibits. . .
Comm.Balalis:
So that now you cannot. . .
Chief Gross:
You cannot use an open container on the beach.
• Comm.Balalis:
But it is a little different because it used to be
that you could not consume.it so therefore an individual
would just say I'm not consuming, I just have it. Is
that basically what has happened.
Chief Gross:
No, you can still - you still have consumption but you
also have available the possession. . .
Comm.Balalis:
So the second portion of that law is what makes it a
little more enforceable?
Chief Gross:
That's correct.
Comm.Balalis:
What we are trying to understand here, of course, in
most of the applications it would have, is that there
appears that a lot of the take -out facilities that we
have that are applying for beer and wine are types
of facilities that may serve not only the transient
part of the population that comes to visit Newport
Beach but also a strong portion, or I should say,
a large segment of the existing community, and what
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I look at relate to things like the Chicken Connection
on Newport and Balboa, some other take -out facilities
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Chief Gross:
Comm.Balalis:
Chief Gross:
Comm.Balalis:
Chief Gross:
Comm.Balalis:
Chief Gross:
Comm.Balalis:
that we've had, some ice cream parlors, etc., that
I think the prices are high enough that basically
the transient will not just go in there and buy, and
I'm not sure that the beer and wine that they also
provide is a problem, but I'm not sure of that, and
I guess what we are really trying to find out is if
in the incidents that your department has been involved
in has there been a study to determine whether or not
they actually purchased the alcoholic beverage locally
or did they bring it with them.
That is the comment I just made. That nearly 200 . . .
I'll give you the exact
200 out of 900?
No, 200 some odd - 241 incidents very specifically
related to being purchased locally.
And walking out with it to the beach?
Yes, ending up in an alcohol related, either under
the influence, or in terms of the common drunk 647
of the Penal Code, or driving under the influence
of alcohol, and the total number of arrests for
alcohol related offenses since June 1, 1982, are
952, so whatever the percentage is, 241 out of 952.
I would comment also in terms of total context, not
just those that we specifically tied to alcohol, that
80% of those are "out- of- towners" that we contacted.
This is a unique community in the fact that the problem
is not generated primarily from inside the community
but by visitors from outside the community.
Are they pertaining to a specific time during the year?
It's year round but as you can imagine it is higher
in the summer time.
O.K. I'm still trying to understand one other factor.
And that is if you purchase an alcoholic beverage in
a restaurant, be it take -out or sit -down, the price
of that is higher than if you purchased it from a
convenience store or a super market or liquor store.
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Chief Gross:
Frankly, I haven't priced it around here specifically
so I would have to assume - the service charge would
certainly normally increase it. Yes.
Comm.Balalis:
So that if the - and again I am trying to understand
whether or not if we did not allow, or if we took a
position, let's say, that we have enough facilities
in the City to sell the alcoholic beverages that
should be sold and we don't need to add any additional
ones, or certainly we don't need to make it any more
convenient for people to purchase alcoholic beverages,
I am wondering if that would really have any effect
in either keeping the same level or not increasing
the number of incidents versus if we did allow other
establishments to sell it, would that have a correlating
relationship and increase the number of incidents.
Chief Gross:
It is a dangerous projecture but I've always lived
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a dangerous life. Let me give you a professional
opinion. To the degree that you make it difficult
to obtain something at a location, you discourage
the involvement in that activity at that location.
Is that.:.you know, I feel very comfortable in making
that professional statement.
Comm.Balalis:
I can understand that.
McLaughlin:
Yes, Chief Gross. The first item that we have that
we postponed was the Dart Saloon. Have you any . . .
Chief Gross:
I would prefer that I not get involved in making
specific recommendations on something that's before you
that we've already made a recommendation on. I
have not changed my position in reviewing that, I
have not changed my.position on that recommendation.
McLaughlin:
No, I wouldn't ask you to.
Chief Gross:
I'm sorry. I jumped in. I apologize.
McLaughlin:
But you're reluctant to give any statistics on it
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saying the majority of our problems down here are
at Egads or or a significant number or . . .
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Chief Gross:
I have specific statistics. I just don't think it's
appropriate to make them public regarding individual
establishments. When I talked about those 241 incidents
they were made up from people that had been at various
locations. I could give that. I just don't think it
is appropriate..
McLaughlin:
That's 241 incidents throughout the City.
Chief Gross:
No, no, no, in the beach area. Let me put it in that
statement..
McLaughlin:
Can you cover the beach area a little bit?
Do you feel comfortable doing that?
Chief Gross:
I would say if you want to talk it would be roughly
from, oh about, let me take 32nd Street, that's a nice
nearby location, out to about "G" Street and then the
Peninsula.
McLaughlin:
And the 952 arrests, that encompasses that area?
• Chief Gross:
That is correct. Now those are alcohol related. That
is not the other kinds of arrests that are involved.
There are a lot of times when our unsophisticated
statistical system which services our needs but
certainly doesn't serve anybody elses, does not
provide us the ability to give you a statistical
breakdown on arrests other than those that are
specifically for a section involving alcohol. As
an example, an arrest may have beer) for a battery
or assault of some kind and without going through
by hand I would be unable to tell you - we would have
to go back and read the reports to see if the body
of the report contained information that .might relate
that.
McLaughlin:
O.K. I guess I could explain where I'm coming from.
Whether the alcohol is possible within a certain
establishment, I can dig that part up myself to
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see whether I think it is right or wrong but if the
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Chief Gross:
McLaughlin:
Chief Gross:
• McLaughlin:
Chief Gross:
McLaughlin:
Chief Gross:
Police Department says to me that is not the thing
then there is no reason that I can overcome that
would endanger public safety, in my own mind. So
if the alcohol causes a problem from your professional
guess does it lead further? Are you saying that if
you let these. . .
I would say unequivocally the use of alcohol or any
drug,the lessons,inhibitions and frustration level
is lower than consequently acting out would occur
more easily under the influence of alcohol or some
drug.
Can you give me some sort of age range? Are we dealing
with middle age. . .
Let's say from,alcohol involvement,from about in rare
cases of 11, but I think I would be safe in saying 13
into the middle 30s.
Do you have a significant number of minors?'
Yes.
Thank you, sir.
And while they are not purchasing, they are consuming
that which is purchased by others.
McLaughlin: By adults.
Chief Gross: Both. Beer and wine at 18, I don't know whether or
not they are adults or not. I guess that's a description.
They are legal if its a person over 21.
Kurlander: Chief Gross, do you have any preference whether it's
an on -site sale or off - site sale?
Chief Gross: Mr. Kurlander it depends on the establishment. There
are establishments that have sufficient staff and are
so constituted themselves that they can contain the
alcohol within. You see one of the problems with an
on sale license is that there are certain other alcoholic
beverages that can be sold. As an example, you can have
• an on sale.and you can still sell a 6 pack to go There
are.. To give you an example of one of the reasons
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• why we want to be very careful to indicate that we
don't have any blanket position on approval or
disapproval, is the fact that the Department of
Alcoholic Beverage Control will permit the application
of certain restrictions on their licenses if recommended
by the community, and as an example, you could put on a
restriction which would say that you could have an on-
sale and while under a general on sale you might be '
able to sell a 6 pack and in this particular situation
you can. You see that is why I say I think we have to
look at each one of those and the only thing that I am
trying to do is to give sort of a broader picture in
which you can make that decision. If I can take a
moment now, Mr. King, I would like to add one factor
to this and tell you what that future think is based
on and the model that we used to compare what is
. happening here. And.that is Hollywood Boulevard. I
can tell you from personal experience that it ranged
from 1962 through 1975. What happened on Hollywood
Boulevard. And you will also find that material
discussed here in this report. There is a phenomenon
that occurs and I might make a comment that at the
present time the only way to correct the problem on
Hollywood Boulevard is to close it for five years.
Literally close it down for five years. Start all
over again. But the sequence of events is that
negative groups start to congregate - I talked about
the cruising, that's the people coming down in groups,
you know, that come down now not necessarily to engage
in drinking activities or anything else but to be there
and when the drinking occurs they engage in that. All
you need is enough money or transportation to get down
here and then you drive around McFadden Square. You park
• there, you sit on the cars or whatever you do. Then
opportunities are provided because the presence of
the cruisers draws people who will feed upon cruisers
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2. The neighborhood customers start to .shop elsewhere
to avoid the cruising.
3. Local businesses suffer losses.
4. New cruising oriented businesses replace the
failing businesses.
5. More cruisers congregate as businesses cater.
to them.
6. Neighborhood customers cease all shopping in the
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area.
7. The neighborhood business disappears.
8. Cruisers and cruiser related businesses and
cruiser related problems take over.
9. Surrounding residential area deteriorate as the
expanding problem negatively impacts the quality
of life.
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And that's the model against which we are comparing
and that is what is happening particularly down in
the McFadden Square area. That is not going to be
resolved by licensing or not licensing, by permits
or not permits. The only thing that is going to
resolve that problem is when the community as a total
community decides to do something about it. So
that's why I say my position on recommending approval
or disapproval really is only dealing with individual
specific problems and thank God that I'm not a Planning
Commissioner, because the longer
that which you have to face.
Kurlander:
I have one more question. We had an applicant here
several weeks ago that came in that the application
was for on -site sale of wine and beer. And she made
a statement to the effect that she had gotten a $500
ticket from the police because someone had consumed
a bottle or can of beer on her property. Now she
did have an off -site license to sell beer and wine
and it may have been purchased from her or it may not.
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• Now the consumption - I don't know how that individual
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could possibly control the consumption of a can of beer
or bottle of beer on her property if it's out of her
sight. I was just wondering if - it's an unfair question
to ask you probably. . .
Chief Gross:
Yes, it is because I don't have the facts before me.
Kurlander:
But is it possible that somebody, conceivably a
merchant, could get a ticket like that?
Chief Gross:
Before there could be any action taken against the
license holder there is an opportunity for hearing and
review and it would have to be clearly proven that that
licensee was responsible. Not just that they sold
it but that they were responsible. An ABC hearing
is just like any administrative hearing. You have to
have sufficient proof to establish that the incident
occurred. We may cite somebody on a specific offense
but I know no situation in which that took place. If
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you gave me the specifics I may find there is something
else that she has interpreted as being that.
Hewicker:
You made reference to the fact that if an establishment
had an on -sale license that they could also sell a
6 pack of beer. Do I understand correcly that when
an on -sale license is applied for that they automatically
can receive an off -sale unless the City conditions it
otherwise?
Chief Gross:
That's my understanding. Let me turn around and
verify. . . That's my understanding. What do you
buys know? Am I right? Yes, I thought I was.
Thank you, Lieutenant.
Mr. King:
Chief Gross, before we leave the area, could you
comment. Are beat officers visible patrols in the
area any deterrent at all to some of the problems
that we begin to encounter there?
Chief Gross:
While they are immediately present. That's one
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of the things I was trying to get through in my
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• comments, Mr. King, apprehension, arrest in this day
and age with the current general public attitude
about drinking in public and the acceptance of drinking
in public and the use of alcohol, has very little impact
after the officer leaves. That's again why, I guess,
one of the things if there is an area where we sense
some inability to provide the service you call upon
us to serve it's that we go through the motions but
those motions particularly with the younger generation
are looked upon as a governmental interference with
their rights to do that and that is why again one of
those things that's underlying in this problem of the
trends in the beach areas. And one of the reasons
we've mentioned that is a significant factor.
Goff: I•have another question, Chief. I'm not quite sure
what the question is so if you will bear with me while
• I try to word it. You are saying that you are not
making a blanket recommendation of denial of all on- or
off -sale beer and wine permits in the beach area. At
the same time all of the requests that we have tonight
and any that I recall had recommended denial in the
beach area. I'm particularly aware of the problem in
the beach area and I am one of the people you described
that don't care to shop there because of the element
that has been attracted. If we were hypothetically to
never approve another permit that would allow beer and
wine to be sold in the beach area, how do you see that
affecting the area. I would assume favorably if it
were affected at all.
Chief Gross: I would say that this problem would still continue to
be compounded if that was your choice. If that was
your choice, we would still have a growing problem
• as long as the only solution to the problem is law
enforcement's efforts to make arrests and deal with
it that way. If I.can be permitted to respond maybe
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because I can't give an answer without going a little
bit afield here and that is that the only change that
will stop the cycle will be a significant change in the
whole complexion of the area. Alcoholic beverage
licenses are only one part as I see it of the problem.
There are other things. As I said, if you look in the
report, we have, I think it's six specific positive
things that can be done that would do that. The other
point that I would make about why I believe that I
would be uncomfortable doing anything but an individual
basis is that there are premises in which the consumption
of alcohol may be a very appropriate thing to do. It
may be part of that enhancement of the area that we are
talking about that would be part of the rehabilitation
of the area. Consequently, you might get a recommendation
on my part in terms of that. We talked about the ones
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we looked at so far. Quite frankly, those haven't
fallen into the enhancing kind of things. Is that
responsive?
Goff:
I believe so. . . What else might be done from your
professional vantage point to help that we can do on
the Planning Commission to perhaps reverse the trend?
Chief Gross:
You again are like me. You are only one part of a total
system but I sense that anything that was done for a
merchant or anybody else that had a project that might
enhance rather than detract from it, you might break
that chain that I'm concerned about that, that descending
vortex one step to the other. Where it is legally
possible if that, and again I don't know whether you
are to encourage people or not, but that would be one
way. That's why I am saying you are much better at
fitting in long range views in terms of businesses,
structures and that kind of thing, but the fact that
nothing more than perhaps to place before you some
information that might indicate what the opposite
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would be, I would feel comfortable in that I
properly spent my time this evening. That, I
think as long as you continue to look at each
individual one which is the appropriate way to
do it, but again emphasizing your role of taking
the longer range view and impact, and seeing
individual applications and a total tapestry
of the future of this City.
Goff:
You mentioned a descending of vortex, sounds
a little like a black hole,once you reach a
certain point there is no turning back. Are those
areas becoming social black holes as you will?
Is it reversible at this point, or do we close
them for 5 years?
Chief Gross:
I don't want to sound evangelical, but if I can
take a moment to say that I've had the opportunity
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to view the other in a time scale and the kinds of
various things that occur during the various periods
and, yes, absolutely. The total difference here is
that I sense there is a whole different attitude
in the community about letting that happen. There
is a lot of abandonment in terms of Hollywood. And
that is why it happened therefore. I think the
kind of interest the people have in this community
for their community is probably the strongest thing
that can keep it from happening.
McLaughlin:
Chief Gross, one last question please. When you gave
me that first geographical frame, one of the items
that was held over waiting for your report was one
of Lido. Do you include that with part of your. . .
Chief Gross:
I'm sorry. In my old age I'm getting a little hard
of hearing. I didn't hear the location.
McLaughlin:
Lido
• Chief Gross:
Oh, Lido Marina. That did not have a negative report
did it?
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• McLaughlin: No, it did not. You estimated approval even . . .
No, the Police Department had recommended approval
on that particular item.
McLaughlin: Not even last week.
Because it was on the peninsula. So we just continued
Commissioners, any other questions?
Hewicker:
I hope I'm not getting too specific and maybe the
City Attorney will stop me if I am. There are
certain other types of activities for which a
discretionary permit is required from the Planning
Commission that some time go hand -in -hand with on -sale
alcoholic beverages, and some times they are added
later. I'm speaking of the permits for live enter-
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tainment and dancing. Does the combination of say
two or three of these activities present a problem
say in all cases to the Police Department, or is it
only in an area where you might have a number of
these types of activities or. . .
Chief Gross:
Mr. Hewicker, let's try it again. Maybe I didn't
put it properly. what I am trying to say is that
in certain areas in the City you are bringing
together all of those different things and that is
sort of the critical mass that I am concerned about
there. No, we can look all over this community and
find places where they have the combination of
alcohol, dancing, disco and all the rest of those
things, and in most of those establishments you
don't have the problem. I guess again that when
you look at the areas where you do have this
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problem you have to go back to that thing that
I talked about earlier in terms of day visitors
and take a look in relation to who is going to
be serviced in what area of the community.
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I think it is unfortunate that there is one particular
area where you have all those things come together but
its the combination about which we are concerned.
Hewicker:
So, then its primarily really not a question necessarily
of individual business establishment but perhaps more
of location and number of similar types of activities
in an area.
Chief Gross:
Yes, although I would have to qualify that by saying that
one of the reasons, I sense, that we like to look at
them as individual is as I said before you
have responsible people, and I'm not saying those that
we are talking about today are irresponsible, but there
is a physical location of structure itself, the kinds
of activities is an example, the price range does have
something to do with it. The problem with having the
higher class kind of places is that if you look at the
•
problem they don't last very long and the Rex is
an excellent restaurant but it used to be the Ritz.
Goff;
Another question that has occurred to me, Chief.
Is the problem associated with time at all. That is
do more incidents take place in the evening than during
the daytime and is that a function of evening or daytime
consumption?
Chief Gross:
That is a historic thing in all police activity. What
you do is maybe change the nature, but there is always
more activity in the evening, say Friday night between
9:00 p.m. and 3:00 a.m. That is probably the heighth
of activity as far as we are concerned. But, again you
get the midday, mid - afternoon kind of thing during the
summer time, so, the time will shift with the season.
Goff:
Hypothetically, if the places that sold beer and wine
either on or off -site consumption were to discontinue
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selling it, say, at 6:00 p.m. would you foresee that
having an appreciable favorable impact?
Chief Gross:
I think Costa Mesa would have a very. serious problem.
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Goff: A traffic problem probably, people getting out of
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Newport.
Chief Gross:
That's correct.
Commissioners
any additional questions of Chief Gross?
Hewicker:
Chief, we don't get this opportunity very often,
there may be some people in the audience that may
want to ask some questions.
Goff:
chief., if you have a little bit of time could we
ask a couple questions?
Chief Gross:
I'm here to make myself available to anybody. I will
have though that if you want to talk about
specific incidents I would like an opportunity to
examine it before I respond.
Goff:
O.K., fair enough. Is there anybody in the audience
that wishes to comment or ask questions on this item?
Yes, please come forward.
Sue Ficker:
I'm Sue Ficker of 110 9th Street, Balboa, and I've been
living down here permanently since 1952 and I'm a member
of the Central Newport Beach Community Association and
had our committee been able to have a meeting.prior to
this evening, I think everyone would have been here
to concur with Chief Gross. I don't think that anyone
who doesn't live in the area and has not,like his officers,
patrolled that area can fully realize the impact of
all the alcoholic distribution in our area.. Downtown
Balboa has nine bars and God knows how many other
places that serve.both beer and wine. Between these
two places, the scale is overweighted on the Peninsula,
and I think we are headed for a disaster just as Chief
Gross has pointed out and I highly urge your support
of his contentions to prevent any further influx of
anything that.is conducive to the distribution of
.
further alcoholic beverages. I myself have frequently
reported to the Police Department incidents on the
Peninsula. I live at the corner of .9th and Balboa Blvd.
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and I have an excellent opportunity to observe what
goes on. One evening 'I called the police, a couple
of years ago, and they came out and caught a bunch of
teenagers who were drinking in front of my house and
throwing their bottles and one thing and another. As
soon as the police left, the kids went right back to
the truck and got more stuff, and went right on and
even these places down at Newport, I have seen people
come out of the Rex. with their glasses in their hand.
They walk out with them, they don't seem to have any
Compunction about and I don't think you should make
the burden on our Police Department anymore than what is
already is. Thank you, Chief Gross, for being here.
King:
Thank you, Ms. Ficker. Did anyone else in the audience
wish to respond to that?
Harrison:
I'm Terry Harrison at 2270 Channel Road, Balboa. I
have a question. Do you think that since - tonight's
meeting, I thought was mainly stinted to take -out -
don't you think that most of the problem comes from
on -sale, not necessarily take out? I think the whole
burden of what's being discussed tonight is being put
on the off -sale and I know you are looking at a lot of
take -out restaurants tonight. Is it only on take -out
or is it on the liquor stores, they are going to have
people coming in that's the
Chief Gross:
That's why I tried not to be specific tonight in relation
- I concur on your statement that what I'm trying to
bring out here tonight is that we have a total problem
and I don't want to get into an on -sale being better
than an off -sale or an off -sale being better than an
on -sale.
King:
Does anyone else want to respond or ask a question?
Chandler:
Yes, I would like to respond. My name is Rex Chandler.
I am the proprietor of the Rex Restaurant at 2106 W.
Ocean Front, McFadden Building, and contiguous with
the Egads Bar next door and I came down here tonight
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to respond to license and some of the other
things that affect me directly, but possibly this
would be a good opportunity. I do concur and I do
think we have a problem and I deal with it on a daily
basis and sometimes I feel like I'm the only person
fighting the war. We try to run an excellent restaurant
and our prices are expensive. We serve an excellent
product and charge a lot of money for it. We have a
dress code. We don't really allow the transient just
because most of them aren't dressed appropriately or
not prepared to spend that kind of money, but Hans Prodder
who spoke once here before and suggested that the liquor
licenses and dance permits would be detrimental to the
area and we spoke on the matter just a couple of nights
ago and one of his reasons for leaving and one of the many
reasons for him leaving besides a great opportunity up
the hill is because of problem we deal with during the
summer, especially during the summer months and just
just this evening I had a problem with rowdy drunks,
teenagers, drinking beer in the truck, pulled up in front
of our restaurant, harassing our customers leaving,
and that type. I can't say too much about our customers
leaving with glasses. If we see them, they do not leave
with glasses. We have an excellent record, we have no
marks whatsoever, no incidents at all from our restaurant.
We try to be part of the community and participate in
a positive manner. so, however my comments effect the
Board, I do agree with the Chief. I think we do need
to take consideration and help us quality operators
who are.concerned about the community to continue in
business and their longevity.
King:
Thank you Mr. Chandler.
Balalis:
I was originally going to ask Chief Gross a question
but will probably have an opportunity to get him
some other time but Rex is here. As you know, we
are having the R /UDAT study coming up to talk about
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the McFadden Square area and the Cannery Village.
I hope that you take the opportunity to participate
and get other people to do so because one of the
things that I agree totally both with yourself and
with Hans, the biggest problem with a nice restaurant.
or any upgrading of that particular area, as Chief
Gross said, is the importance that the community will
play and the ability and desire to clean it out and
I don't know, some of us have talked about in the past
of eliminating the parking lot, some other way of just
dealing with getting the crusing stopped. Of course,
living down at the other end of Peninsula, I see them
come all the way down my way and then turn around and
come right back again. I really don't know how you
are going to stop the cruising totally.
Chandler:
Where we have tried to do our part. We rent another
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lot by the Real Estate Store and actually valet and
ferry our cars across to relieve some of the congestion
in.the parking lot. Obviously, these are for personal
gains also. We have to attract better clientele that
would normally be deterred from the area. I have
customers that would drive their teenage sons car down
there because they don't want to bring their Rolls
Royce. And I can't blame them. So, we have secured
a parking lot that has 35 stalls that we pay $750.a
month to rent plus the labor and man power to supervise
it and police it, etc. When you are one of the few it
really sometimes the burden seems tremendous, but like
residents of Newport Beach, I was born and raised here
and I love it, it's a great area and I think that if
we all pull together I think we can turn it around.
I don't think it's too late at all. In fact, I've
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seen a lot of improvement in the last few years and I
think the police have done an excellent job down there
policing the area. It's not an easy job. They really
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have a tough one.
Balalis:.
I think what you said at the start. A station wagon
came by and the guys were drinking beer. So obviously
one. . .
Chandler:
That was this evening on my way over here at 7:25 and
then there was another one earlier today, a Volkswagen,
with cans of beer, open containers, and although I
called and reported that a Volkswagen, yellow, I don't
know if they ever caught up with them, but they were
same thing, whistling, and calling names to people along
the curb. I'm sure they got in trouble, they couldn't
have gotten too much further on. They were pretty open
about it. But it does happen, probably every few
minutes. And as a deterrent, all the people who live
on the Peninsula as well as the people around the area
would like to come down to old Newport. We have an area
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down here that is reminiscent of San Francisco and its
wharf area and Ghiardelli Square, quality restaurants,
nice shops, but instead we have just a few of us...
i think it could be that all over again. Quite an
atraction rather than a deterrent.
Balalis:
Thank you. And in exchange for that bouillabaisse
recipe, I might. . .
White:
I'm Angela Ficker White from 1132 West Bay Avenue, and
I'm in agreement with Chief Gross. I watched Hollywood
Boulevard deteriorate and what he has told you is
absolutely true. And if any of you would like to go
in to Hollywood Boulevard, I would be happy to take .
you. And if any of you would like to go on a tour of
Newport Beach, I don't care what time it is, if it's
3:00 in the morning, my sister, Susie, and I would
like to take you. Because it is on the way to what
happened to Hollywood Boulevard and I think that every-
one should get together to see what they can do to try
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to help Chief Gross, because his Police Department is
doing a wonderful job. Thank you.
King: Thank you, maam. Does anyone else in the audience
wish to address. Chief Gross, we thank you for coming down.
Chief Gross: Thank you for the opportunity.
Mr. Chairman I believe that Susie was going to speak again to give
you a second opinion.
King:
Ficker:
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Susie did you want to say something else? No? O.K.
Let's move on to item No. 2 then. Oh, excuse me.
I'm sorry I was looking down and didn't see you start
to get up.
Ms. Sue Ficker again 110 9th Street, Balboa. One thing
that has come under discussion between the Peninsula
Plight Association and the Central Newport Beach
Community Association is the number of officers and the
time which it takes to reply to the calls. And despite
the fact that our city has grown tremendously the last
few years, there are budget constraints to the number
of police that we can hire and Chief Gross is more or
less stuck with what he's got, and at various times our
associations have requested more policemen but that is
not a possibility evidently. So, I think that what you
must take under consideration is not so much what you
are denying to the people who are asking for liquor
licenses but what you are denying to the rest of the
community in proper police service. Thank you very
much.
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