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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/04/2004 - PB&R CommissionMAY 4, 2004 APPROVED PB &R COMMISSION MINUTES CITY OF NEWPORT BEACH Parks, Beaches & Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4, 2004 - 7pm Convened 7:03pm ROLL CALL Present: Debra Allen Tim Brown Roy Englebrecht Bill Garrett Greg Ruzicka Tom Tobin Absent: Val Skoro Staff: Marie Knight, Recreation £t Senior Services Director David Niederhaus, General Services Director Andrea McGuire, Recreation Superintendent Teri Craig, Administrative Assistant DIRECTOR'S COMMENTS Director Knight thanked Commissioner Brown for helping staff with the Arbor Day celebration last Friday at Lincoln School. She stated that crews from General Services assisted staff with the tree plantings and the students who participated wrote poems and drew there own forests. She reminded the Commission that the CdM 5K is Saturday June 5 and asked for a volunteer to be the back up race starter if Chair Allen is unable to make it. Commissioner Brown stated that he would be there if needed. Director Niederhaus echoed Director Knight's comments and thanked Recreation staff for their support on the Arbor Day Celebration; but most importantly stated that Arbor Day is a required element of being named as Tree City USA. PUBLIC COMMENTS None CONSENT CALENDAR 1. Minutes of the April 6, 2004 regular meeting. Waive reading of subject minutes, approve as written and order filed. 2. Park lY Tree Division Activity Report. Receive and file monthly Activity Report for activities and upcoming projects. 3. Item pulled by Commissioner Tobin. 4. Designated Street Tree Change. Accept recommendation for designated street tree change submitted by Seawind Community Association. 3. Recreation Et Senior Services Activity Report. Commissioner Tobin stated that the information listed under Park Patrol for the last several months appears to be a List of activities that Park Patrol has done; he went on to say that however, it needs to be quantified or more specific. He commented that would really help to know what happened; the result, etc., as it appears that there is just a lot of running in place. Parks, Beaches Ft Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 2 Director Knight stated that the Patrol Patrol officers fill out a log of their daily activity so for both staff we have a record of everything that they have done on their shift, each encounter is listed; every action taken and they log which facility that they open and or close. She went on to say that staff could try to provide that to you in a report but it would be quite a large report. Commissioner Knight stated that the report is a culmination of activities that Park Patrol has encountered in the past month. She noted that staff will review next months report to see if there are areas where more detail could be provided Discussion ensued regarding sign in system at the tennis courts. Commissioner Englebrecht stated that he felt that if any of the Commissioners have concerns or questions about the activities of the Park Patrol then they should visit the Recreation Admin office to read them over. Motion by Commissioner Ruzicka to receive and approve Items 1 through 4 of the Consent Calendar. Motion carried by acclamation. NEW BUSINESS 6. Beach Maintenance - Director Niederhaus gave a PowerPoint presentation on beach maintenance activities (attached). He also reviewed the Adopt -A -Beach program and urged the Commission support. Chair Allen asked Commissioner Tobin to represent the Commission at the May 22 Kick Off event. 7. New City Council Policy B -17 — Donations to the Recreation It Senior Services Department - Director Knight stated that Superintendent McGuire would be giving the report and asked the Commission to recall the discussion several months ago regarding potential items, other than benches and trees that could be accepted as donations. She stated that a meeting with the Recreation Activities Committee was held to discuss this further and established this new Council policy. Superintendent McGuire stated that the Committee was presented with a preliminary policy drafted by staff and changes were made as they requested for presentation tonight. She stated that this would be a new policy but would mirror the G -5 Policy — Pork ft Street Improvement Donations. She noted that If a donation were made for more than $5,000 then it would warrant a plaque, but anything under that would not; she stated that this to not have plaques on everything. If large donations are made that could be considered a Capital Improvement like a building or restroom building, picnic pavilion, a playground, or something of that caliber then the donation would have to cover 75% of the total cost for the improvement to warrant the privilege of naming rights. She stated that staff is working on a Gift Catalog and after tonight's input from the Commission staff hopes to present a draft at the July meeting. Director Knight stated that in preparation for this staff garnered and reviewed information from 30 other cities on these same types of programs to learn from their best practices. Parks, Beaches rt Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 3 Chair Allen stated that one of the things that have happened with the bench policy is that sometimes well meaning people want to place benches and the neighborhood around it does not want them. She asked if this policy, by having it cut off at $10,000 with staff approval could lead to problems in the future. She wondered if we might encounter that problem of having structures put in neighborhoods where they don't want them and there would not be a hearing for it. Director Knight stated that most structures would most likely be over the $10,000 mark and does not believe that very much would be donated under that mark that would be obtrusive. She stated that the majority of items that would come under this policy with the exception of possibly drinking fountains would be more programmatic and believes that items under that amount are more for staff review such as a new sound system for OASIS; anything above that would be for the Commission review and of course the public would be officially noticed. Chair Allen questioned how if something is over $5,000 or less you are allowed a 2x6" plaque but if you buy a bench that is like $1,500 you get a 2x6" plaque. Director Knight stated that you do not have the bench policy this evening but believes that is something that General Services is looking at as well in there policy is issuance of plaques and how it is handled and in meeting with their staff that is something that will be looked at also. Director Niederhaus stated that this policy was also reviewed and worked on with General Services staff and that he certainly concurs but that staff is coming tonight to test the waters to see what you thought. He noted that he believes that the G -5 will also need to be modified regarding plaques as there are just thousands of them out there and staff has to keep them cleaned. He commented that just around City Halt there are probably 25 from all the Sister City's and that they have to be kept cleaned and polished. He stated that staff would like to know how you feel about that and stated that he would put any kind of fear to rest regarding staff putting any structure anywhere where it would not be wanted. He went on to say that anything of that value would require a building permit and would need to meet all the City codes, even such a thing as a shade structure as was proposed at Buffalo Hills would require a noticing the HOA, noticing everyone within 300 feet of the structure. Director Niederhaus went on to say that there is also the process of having public review and commented that he was not worried about that but believes that we are moving in the right direction where there is an avenue to except large donations maybe from an estate because G -5 does not cover that and believes that once this gels out that staff will go back and try to mirror and try to get away from plaques, just some thoughts here. Commissioner Ruzicka stated that what you are really trying to do is to raise the threshold of if you want to buy a plaque you must donate $5,000 instead of $1,500 and asked if that was the direction that staff was moving towards. Director Knight stated yes and interestingly enough most cities call them the memorial plots because there are so many and that some cities don't do any plaques at all but hand out a nice certificate. She went on to say that some have noted that once a plaque is on Parks, Beaches ft Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 4 an item that there is a feeling of ownership and that the City had a hard time when a bench or a tree needed to be moved that causes some problems. She stated that what we are really looking at is raising the threshold, less plaques and memorial plates all over town and looking at other ways of recognizing and accepting the donation. Commissioner Brown asked if the City had a mechanism to sell or accrue the value of someone else's property. He stated would we be getting old cars and sail boats. He asked what kinds of real property are we talking about. Director Knight stated that the City is not allowed to put a value on donated property but there is also criteria in the policy for accepting gifts in that we would look to accept a donation if it is good condition and if it is needed and will be used. She went on to say for example if it was an old Sabot that someone wanted to donate to the sail program and if staff did not feel that it was something that could be used in the program then it would not be accepted. Commissioner Brown stated that then we are not looking at things that the City could auction off. Director Knight stated no. Superintendent McGuire stated that we have turned down donations but in the past week we just accepted a nice lido that is in better shape than anything that is in stock. Director Knight stated that the difficult thing about donations is that staff does receive lots of calls about donations but sometimes it is more cost than it is worth to accept the donation and that is why staff needs to be able to decide it the donation meets the standard of services to the community. Chair Allen stated that in other words that old exercise equipment in the garage is not going to be accepted. Director Knight stated that it would be a good donation for the OASIS Rummage Sale. Commissioner Englebrecht stated that he believed that this is the right step to take establishing this B -17 policy because when in fact the catalog is complete and made available to the residents of the City that everyone will be surprised of how many will want to donate, which in fact will impact the budgets and the programs and believes that many donations will be geared towards specific programs which will allow staff to spend money in different areas. Commissioner Garrett stated that obviously this is a problem and that is why staff is bringing this to the Commission, is that right? Director Knight stated there are several reasons for this policy, not only the bench and tree donation policy but the library has had a policy in place for a long time and there have been some issues there as well and staff has seen an increase in calls and at the same time staff began to look at the bench and tree issues along with the plaques and if Parks, Beaches ft Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 5 this is going to be opened up and give people ideas for donations it would be a good to be proactive and allow staff to be discerning on about what is accepted. Commissioner Garrett asked how a donation of cash would be handled. Director Knight stated that for example the track meet is co- sponsored by the Rotarians and they help to underwrite that and the City does have the ability to accept taxable write off donations and the staff will look at the programs and the Commission will be able to see that as you review the brochure. Staff is not looking for donations to cover things that the City is already paying for but to expand the programs for the future. Chair Allen stated that she would like to make one revision to the policy and that is on item 2B that she is still concerned that structures are not built or water fountains placed without for instance something in the ground that would be accepted by the Department Director but that the Commission would be notified and it would be subject to be called for on an agenda. Director Knight stated that she is not sure what Chair Allen means by acceptance of the donation could be called up by the Commission. Chair Allen stated that if staff is going to accept a donation for anything that will be built as a structure even a drinking fountain that would be less than $10,000 threshold then the Commission should be notified of that and have the time for a Commissioner to call it up for public hearing if it was decided that it needed one. Commissioner Englebrecht asked what the reason would be for that. Chair Allen stated that she was concerned because in remembering that experience with the bench donation and that it was a misunderstanding and that staff had no reason to understand that the people down there did not want it installed and would hate for something to be installed and cannot imagine that a drinking fountain would upset anyone but she stated that the Commission should have the right to take a look at it before it is built. Director Niederhaus stated that he believes that the policy needs to be more generic and not say the Recreation ft Senior Services Department and that it should include parks, because the G -5 policy is fairly defined and just benches drinking fountains and hardscape so what staff is really looking for it giving people the choice for donating items in recreation, senior services and when you get to 2B it should state by accepted by staff after due diligence is done but stated that he really liked the idea of having a catalog and having the opportunity because when someone asks how to make donations in parks. He stated his point was that the policy should be generic. Director Knight asked if General Services staff was going to install a water fountain at say Castaways would it need to come to the Commission for approval? Director Niederhaus stated yes. Parks, Beaches £t Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 6 Chair Allen stated that she just wanted to make sure that this in item 2B is not changing the need for it to come for a public hearing. She went on to say that they should have the right to approve anything that would be built and would stay there. Director Knight maybe the wording should be any installation of a permanent fixture in the parks. Director Allen stated yes. Director Niederhaus stated that he liked the idea of making the policies match and believes that the G -5 policy could be approved based on some of the things that have been said tonight on the level and the plaques and so forth and staff would like to match it again and come back to the Commission but stated that in both cases his opinion is that all donations should come to the Commission for the opportunity for public review and any comments would be noticed 300 feet and if staff overlooks that one person that would object then that is the point for needing to go forward to the Commission. Discussion ensued regarding the possibility of having zoning requirements in the policy. Director Niederhaus restated his concern that staff should not be accepting anything without going to the Commission especially when it comes to cash for some unspecified project but believes that not too many of those will happen. Commissioner Ruzicka stated that he doesn't see anyone with an argument and the motion should be made. Motion by Commissioner Allen to forward the policy with changes that were discussed and forward to City Council for their review and approval. Motion carried by acclamation. 8. Joint Meeting with Costa Mesa Parks & Recreation - Director Knight stated that the Costa Mesa Commission has invited us for a joint meeting on June 23 to discuss items of joint interest. After much discussion it was decided to decline with thanks the invitation from Costa Mesa Parks it Recreation Commission and possible schedule a meeting next year. 8. Newport Beach Municipal Code Chapter 11.04 - Director Knight stated that as you recall this staff report came to you at the April 6 meeting and at the request of the Commission; it was brought to a subcommittee to look at it further and to answer questions that you might have regarding the ordinance that staff is proposing. A Committee meeting was held on April 14th; it was also noticed in the Daily Pilot for the public; but no one from the public attended the meeting. Based on that meeting, and initial comments from the April Commission meeting, a few things were changed such as in the Prohibitive Conduct section we combined some areas that were either repetitive or made sense to combine. In your report this evening staff referenced throughout areas of the current NBMC, existing Council Policies, and Administrative Regulations where these policies exist or are referred to. She went on to say that part of what staff tried to do is to bring those things that are in the MC already that have to do with conduct in parks into one ordinance so that it will Parks, Beaches ft Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 7 be easier for staff to administer. Just to reiterate, staff did work extensively with the City Attorney's office on this new Ordinance so they were very much apart of this and have researched this with other cities to look at how they handle certain problems that we are encountering and the type of language that they used and now it is presented for your input. Commissioner Englebrecht stated that in response to the a -mails that Chair Allen and Commissioner Brown sent, the feeling was that maybe we are trying to buy too much authority to the Park Patrol but in fact they are not - they are writing a ticket that has a penalty so it is not just the warning -. Chair Allen wanted to clarify her concern for the benefit of staff since she sent it to the Commission but did not send it to staff because staff was on jury duty. Director Knight stated that she was checking her e-mail every night and would have appreciated the email as well. Chair Allen said no - she just figured that you had enough to do. She stated that she was concerned; and believes that the Park Patrol from all we hear is doing a wonderful job and because they are doing a wonderful job that she is just not comfortable that there is a demonstrated need to make an ordinance out of what is now a bunch of different ordinances and /or policies - and would just like to see staff come back in say the summer with what is in place now and document it at the end of the summer stating that these problems occurred that we needed the ordinance to fix because we could not fix them with what we've got. She stated that the one area that she will back off that a little bit is if you are having problems and you need the right to write tickets for people that are using reserved facilities that do not have reservations. She stated that she could understand that demonstrated need and that when we first started the Park Patrol that a lot of that was demonstrated. But for some of the other things that she stated that she is not comfortable that there is a demonstrated need so that is where I was coming from and that is what I shared with others. Commissioner Englebrecht asked if we couldn't in fact pass this on to City Council and see how it works this summer with them having the authority to issue a citation that has a penalty and then evaluate that after because if we go this summer I don't know if we will have a proper evaluation because they basically are pretty impotent in what they can enforce and do. Chair Allen stated that was a different point of view. Commissioner Ruzicka stated to Chair Allen that regarding her e-mail and he concur with her completely on this and thinks that we want to give these gentlemen who appear to be pragmatic on decisions but I believe it was Thomas Payne who said "there is no greater tyranny than the strict enforcement of the law..." or whatever it was and stated that he agrees and would like to see how this thing goes for a year or and believes that it is overkill when we do not have a tremendous amount of problems or at least that is the impression that he is under at this juncture and those gentlemen when they were here last meeting seemed like they were intelligent and were not going to abuse there Parks, Beaches Is Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 8 authority but stated that he likes less law not more and believes that it is the libertarian coming out of him or something but stated that he agrees with Chair Allen's summation and that we are better off without it and if we are wrong then, Roy, we readdress and change our minds. Commissioner Garrett asked if, he was under the impression by reading the materials through a couple of times and from what he could gather, that they have the ability to issue a citation now is that correct? Director Knight stated that they do have the ability to issue citations now based on the current code, Conduct in Parks, which is very limiting which you have a copy of and that is the extent of their authority so they do not have the ability to issue citations if they are having problems with persons not leaving areas that are already reserved. So the current code is very limiting, they have authority to issue citations based on that code and only that code. Commissioner Garrett stated that his feeling is we have appointed these people, we've hire them, trained them and the police have trained them and it seems silly that we have all this expense out there and we are not utilizing them in a way that they should be used. He stated that he would support this if someone were to make a motion to pass this on to Council. Commissioner Brown stated that he would just reiterate what he said in the e-mail that was sent to everybody and stated that his concern on this is that if we don't have a code of enforcement then they are left with making subjective decisions on what is acceptable behavior and what isn't, and it could lead to some arbitrary enforcement and agrees with everyone on the Commission with respect about the Park Patrol officers and they are terrific guys and I am sure that they would make all the right decisions but it just seems that not having something that has been reviewed by the public or the opportunity to be reviewed and reviewed by this Commission so that we can insure to the public that everyone is treated equitably and fairly when it comes to the safety and accessibility of the parks. He went on to ask that since they do write a ticket and there is a fine connected with that ticket, someone is going to challenge that and if we cannot point to a specific code I would think that we are going to have a little difficulty and so that is basically what I said in the a -mail and just to get this on the record and apologized that this did not go to staff as well. He stated that this was his concern and would second that motion that Commissioner Garrett made and is very comfortable with this. Chair Allen stated that they should make sure that Commissioner Garrett made a motion. Motion by Commissioner Garrett to forward the Ordinance to City Council for their approval. Director Knight stated that one of the things that Council has asked staff to do when approving the Park Patrol program was to review those areas that we are currently offering a service but do not have the authority: such as giving people the exclusive use of a park area, so that is an important part of this ordinance. The current code, and one of the reasons that the City Attorney went to great lengths at adding definitions in here is, Parks, Beaches i3 Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 9 that the current Code is so vague that the Park Patrol officers will be out there make subjective calls based on the current Code because it is not very directive and the other area that we heard at the last meeting from Commissioner Skoro about is drinking at the parks and that is a big problem and as we go into the summer season, Inspiration and Lookout Point will continue to be a huge problem and that is something that many people that were in support of the Park Patrol program asked for the ability for this program to deal with and that is one of the most important things that we have in here. Commissioner Ruzicka asked if he was under the misapprehension of the facts that if these gentlemen were out there and something became ugly they certainly can just call uniformed officers and they could roll to the scene and could say look gentlemen I will step in here and take care of this for you, correct. Director Knight stated yes they can but the other reasons for a much expanded Code is at the request of the Police Department and Code Enforcement who is looking at this as another way for them to be able to cover more territory in this City and if Park Patrol is out there without the ability to enforce these things then that is what they have to do on a regular basis is call PD to come and take care of that situation. If that was effective and I am not saying anything against the Police Department but I do not know that we would see so many complaints from our residents on Ocean Boulevard about the drinking and the problems out there. I do not know if that is always a priority for the PD in the bigger scheme of things but if we have a Park Patrol that is out there then they are hoping that they will be able to take care of some of these things and alleviate the Police Department to look at higher priority calls. Chair Allen stated that she had a couple more comments but would let Commissioner Tobin go first. Commissioner Tobin stated that as far as the drinking on Ocean Boulevard there are residents on Ocean Boulevard that have been having wine and cheese there for at least 30 years that he know of and I have joined them and you will find other residents that are probably very much against it so whatever way you are going to go you are going to have residents that are going to be very disturbed about it and forcing something to the letter will always cause trouble. He stated that when these Park Patrol officers first came on it was primarily for the two sports groups — Little League and Soccer that wanted somebody to intercede and get some of these people off the courts when they had assigned activities there and now it has grown like top seed and we have rules and regulations and they will be enforcing no person under the age of 10 will enter a restroom, bathroom or dressing room, that is tough. He stated that it should roll for a year and see what comes out of it instead of forcing a lot this down people's throat. He stated that these fellas appear to be doing a good job and keeping a lid on what is going on but to me it looks like if you go to Mexico we have down here we have Police volunteers, we have lord knows how many different people in Mexico you have federal, state and local and harbor police A running around forcing rules and regulations and it just an overkill and does not believe that we need all this and we have a very strong Police Department and would let it slide for a year. Parks, Beaches & Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 10 Commissioner Englebrecht stated that he does not agree that we should let it slide and believes that Commissioner Garrett nailed it in his comments and since we only have six commissioners here tonight he stated that he is looking for one more vote from the middle of the dais to see this happen and stated that he thinks that we need to heed what Bill said and that we really put this program together and we are ready to in fact now to come full circle and that is with the adoption of the new Conduct in the Parks section of the Municipal Code and with the enforcement and that we are making a mountain out of a molehill here and we have to look back at this Commission and the number of residents that were not soccer or little league people who lived on Ocean Boulevard who were wanting some enforcement and some teeth and were tired of so many problems that they were having from inside and outside of the community. Commissioner Englebrecht stated that he believes it is important to send a message from this Commission to staff and the Park Patrol and the message is that we support them and we are finally buttoning up there shirt so to speak and giving them the proper stance in the community the proper way to enforce their park patrol duties. Chair Allen stated that she appreciates what Commissioner Englebrecht said and noted that she had weighed this thing a lot back and forth both ways and stated that her bottom line is I keep looking at this list of 25 items and I am a lawyer and I know the City Attorney worked very hard on this but I could not stand up in front of the City Council and say that I voted to support that you put a sign up in the park that says that this is what you can't do when you have a list of these 25 things - it is just overkill and I cannot do it and I am sorry. I would be happy to look at it at the end of the summer if we have specific areas, if the drinking is a problem or the facilities are a problem or if there are things that the Park Patrol cannot handle without more power but could not stand up to defend this. Commissioner Englebrecht asked Commissioner Garrett if he would pull his motion off because he believed that if Commissioner Skoro were here he would have voted for this and so we would have had the four votes that we would need to pass this and if we vote tonight and it is three to three and asked if it just stays on and we vote next month? Chair Allen stated that the only way that it could happen is if a motion were made to continue it and the motion passes. Commissioner Englebrecht asked if a commissioner could give his proxy to someone Chair Allen stated no. Commissioner Garrett stated that he actually agreed with Chair Allen but that his sense of this is that this is not going to end up on a sign someplace and that it would not be appropriate and his support of this would wane if there were going to be signs all over the parks with these rules and his sense is that this is a Code that provides authority to the Park Patrol staff but what we make available to the public in terms of what is acceptable and not acceptable behavior can probably be put in a paragraph and certainly not in signs all over the parks and so if I have misunderstood this then I will stand corrected and his support of this is not to confront the public with this saying here is a list of what you can and cannot do in the parks. Parks, Beaches £t Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 11 Chair Allen had pictures of signs in parks, and stated that she did not know where these came from and did not see the pictures until now but they are pictures of signs in parks, and that it was not what I based my fear on but it actually confirms it. Chair Allen asked if there was any further discussion on the motion. She stated ok, please vote. Director Knight reminded the Chair that she needed to open the public discussion. Chair Allen stated that she was sorry and asked if there was anyone from the public that wished to talk on the issue. Chair Allen opened the Public Discussion Jan Vandersloot, Newport Heights stated that actually he thought he heard that somebody saying that they were passing a -mails around to everyone and that it might be a violation of the Brown Act so suggested that they might want to talk to the City Attorney about... Chair Allen stated that she had talked to the Bob and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with communicating by e-mail so long as Commissioners do not vote; that there is no quorum; and no attempt is made to persuade other Commissioners as to how to vote. She went on to say that expressing opinion by way of e-mail is perfectly appropriate. She restated that this was the opinion that had been given by the Bob. Dr. Vandersloot stated that the GPAC Committee was not allowed to do that kind of thing. Chair Allen stated that she did not know what happens with GPAC but that is the opinion that she has received. Dr. Vandersloot commented that you cannot discuss this issue amongst yourselves. Chair Allen stated that you cannot discuss but you can simply state your opinion. Dr. Vandersloot stated that it seems to him that it would be a little bit difficult to imagine how you can state your opinion without discussing it, in other words somebody would send an e-mail but you would not respond to or something like that. Chair Allen stated that Dr. Vandersloot could ask the City Attorney himself, but stated that she has the opinion that Bob gave on what was allowed regarding a -mails and that is what is abided by and if that changes then she will abide by the new rule. Dr. Vandersloot stated he also would not be in favor of a whole lot of signs being posted in the park either so if this Ordinance means that signs will list these 25 prohibited items in the park then he would not be for it either. He stated that he would support having the Park Ranger having enforcement authority without having to call the Police on everything but stated that he has not studied this Ordinance thoroughly and then would recommend that this item be continued so that Commissioner Skoro could vote also since you probably will have a tie. Parks, Beaches & Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 12 Chair Allen closed the public discussion Commissioner Tobin commented to Dr. Vandersloot that he could not believe that the tree in front of the Balboa Inn would ever survive and that it is doing a beautiful job... Dr. Vandersloot stated that somebody stopped poisoning it. Chair Allen stated that we are off the agenda and cannot go there. Commissioner Tobin again stated his compliments to Dr. Vandersloot. Commissioner Englebrecht asked Commissioner Garrett what he wanted to do with his motion. Commissioner Garrett stated that he believes that everyone is in favor of the Ordinance but agree that more signs in the park is not something that anyone wants and is there a way that we could put a limit on that or do we have the authority to do that; this is bad enough can we have a caveat that says no more signs? Chair Allen stated that there is a provision in the law that states that things are only enforceable if the public has notice so some of the reasons that there are signs are that you face a serious challenge when a public entity tickets someone for something that they did not know was against the law. You do far better if you put up signs noticing people of these issues. Chair Allen stated that she feels that the Ordinance should be left alone for the summer and look at the types of problems that come up and review the Ordinance again in the fall to see if it is needed and does not see a need for now. Commissioner Garrett asked that his motion be withdrawn. Commissioner Brown stated that he does not see the difference from motor vehicles and park conduct. Chair Allen stated that for a driver's license you must take a test to drive a car so the judges that you appear before assume that if you have a driver's license that you know the vehicle code. Motion by Commissioner Ruzicka to not forward the Ordinance 11.04 to Council. Substitute motion by Commissioner Garrett to bring back the Ordinance at the end of the summer with the idea that the signage issue be resolved. Motion fails by the following vote: Aye: Allen, Garrett Nay Brown, Englebrecht, Ruzicka Tobin Absent: Skoro Parks, Beaches £t Recreation Commission Regular Meeting May 4 2004 Page 13 Commissioner Ruzicka's motion carried by the following vote: Aye: Allen, Garrett, Ruzicka. Tobin Nay Brown, Englebrecht Absent: Skoro OLD BUSINESS 10. Committee Reports Appoint Special Trees Committee and disband Tree Committee- Chair Allen asked that this item be held until the next Chair is appointed. • Finance - Nothing to report • Park Development - Nothing to report. • Rec Et Open Space Element - Nothing to report. • Recreation Activities - Commissioner Englebrecht stated that this item was reported on earlier during the new Council Policy section. • Seniors - Nothing to report. • Beach Activities - Commissioners Garret stated that he attended the Adopt -a -Beach program sponsored by Council Member Rosansky. He stated that he had received a newsletter from the West Newport HOA stating that they were discussing the extension of the boardwalk and that there are some coastal people that are pursuing that. • Ad Hoc Community Service Award - A meeting will be scheduled in July. Youth Sports Liaison - A meeting will be held in May FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS • Limiting of Bench Donations, identify areas where they are needed • Donation Brochure- July • Irvine Terrace Park Encroachment - May • Review of Council Policy G -5 possibly requiring approval of HOA where benches will be installed or gage number of benches in parks. • Liability Aspects at Marina Park • Ordinance 11.04 — Conduct in Parks ADJOURNMENT - 8:48pm Submitted by: r--, Teri Craig, Admin Ass ant